From Immigrant Roots to Expat Life: Growing Up with Immigrant Parents and Living Abroad: S11E2

Questions about family can be triggering if the experience was not ideal. This is one of the reasons that Steph's talked about her family in tiny drips here and there but not in depth. But it felt disingenuous to ask other expats to open up about their early family life growing up with immigrant parents without diving into these experiences herself. So to help with this tabled turned interview, Melissa was kind enough to hop in and guide the conversation.

Melissa's podcast: Tired In My Twenties: https://tiredtwenties.substack.com/

Original publication date: August 29, 2022

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:35

Hello there, dear geopaths listener. Normally, Stephanie Fuccio is here to take you around the world in unique and interesting ways by introducing you to expats and geopaths. But well, today we got a little bit of a treat for you. In this episode, the tables are going to be turned and Stephanie is going to be interviewed by Melissa Lent. In this season, Steph is talking with expats who grew up with one or more immigrant parents, and she's having them wrestle with the question of did that impact their later expat life? So far, she's spoken with Alison, who has a Chilean mom, Chelsea, an American with a German mom, and George, a Canadian with two Greek parents. Well, today it's Steph's turn. Steph, as you know, is an American who grew up with two Italian parents. In this conversation, her and Melissa, they discuss work ethic, fitting in, standing out, striving, and much, much more. So let's listen to Melissa Lent and Steph's wonderful conversation now.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Hey there. I am your guest host, Melissa Lent. I am the host of the Tired in My Twenties podcast, and I'm also a researcher and multimedia specialist at a public policy think tank. First, we have to talk a little bit about your ex fat life. People aren't totally aware. They can get a sense, uh, and you're moving all the time, to be honest, I think this year. So why don't you tell people where you're at currently, right now?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Oh yeah, thank you. Uh right now I'm in Valencia, Spain. I've been, I was, I'm still not even sure of the verb tense. I I have been overseas for the majority of the past 20 years. Um, most of that was spent in Asia teaching English and then on the testing side of language uh testing. That's redundant. And then at the beginning of the pandemic, my husband and I moved to Germany for a different life and the world turned upside down. And so we've accidentally turned into digital nomads until something else comes along. We're moving every three months now, different countries and things, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I've heard a little bit about your experiences. If you take a wide angle view of that, it's kind of like, ooh, expat moving around every few months, like exploring the world. But it is quite stressful as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Oh, I think it's mostly stressful. I don't know how people do this for long term. Like again, we're doing this as a band-aid until something else comes along. But um, it's really hard to jump around this much to totally different places. And once you get kind of comfortable, then you're changing again. Like for me, a year or two years or three years is super comfortable in a place, but like three months is like barely finding the perfect coffee shop.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

It does take a while to get used to a place. I I guess uh you did get those years in Asia. Do you want to tell the listeners a little bit about what specific countries you were teaching in and living in?

SPEAKER_02 3:46

A lot. It was the majority of the time. So it was like uh China, Japan, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam. I think those are the major notes, and there's other vacations and things in longer, longer vacations in places, but those are the main bits. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

What was the reason why you decided to to move to Asia in the first place and kind of start that expat life?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Actually, I used teaching as a way to live overseas, and then I actually fell in love with teaching for a very long time. But yeah, no, it was it was a way to live longer in places, it was a tool at first.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah. Well, even though you're not an English teacher anymore, teaching English to people, you still teach a lot of people through through your podcast. So I definitely see the the teacher side of you still there at its core, wanting to share things with people and make people like aware of things, uh, also through through your newsletter and things like that. So definitely see those teacher vibes uh continuing. Why don't we get into a little bit of what the heart of this conversation really is, which is about the immigrant parents part? So where are your parents from?

SPEAKER_02 4:55

My father's from Naples in Italy, and my mother's from Calabria, uh, from a tiny, tiny, I guess you would call it village called San Domitio Coron, which is a an Albanian enclave in southern Italy.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

So your parents, they they were both from Italy, and then did they move to the United States? Did they meet in Italy? Did they move meet in the United States? How did that happen?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

It's funny because there isn't or there wasn't ever a lot of talk about this in the household growing up. But what I do, what I have heard, which may or may not be true, is that they both came over at different times. My my dad came over to the US when he was 12 with I think with family. And my mother came over when she was 35, so significantly later in her, not 35, sorry, 21, I think, in her early 20s, with a few family members, but not all, because both my both sides of my family have gigantic, like nine children kind of families. Yeah. So she came over with a few relatives in her early 20s, and they met in beauty school in Brooklyn, New York.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Oh, beauty school. So were they both studying to become, I guess, like beauty technicians or or or something I don't know what the official terms are, but I don't know either.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

But apparently they they did it, they went through the whole program and they actually had a salon together for a few years. Wow. And but that was before you were born, or yeah, yeah, yeah. My mom ended up being uh, I guess, allergic to a lot of the chemicals because this is like 50s and 60s when they were doing the big buffons and all this really intense chemical treatments and things. So they had to move on to other work.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Oh, really? What what did they move on to, I guess, by the time that that you were born?

SPEAKER_02 6:44

I think my dad was a security person at the docks, and that's gonna raise some eyebrows for folks who are familiar with New York and Italians in New York, and I don't really know what more to say about that. Because, like I said, there's a lot of unknown in my family history that I still don't quite understand. But as far as I know, he worked at the docks and my mom was a stay-at-home mom, which you could do in the 70s. Unlike now, it's just super super duper hard.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yeah. Sometimes I feel like the stay-at-home mom is the stay-at-home working mom. And so mom, you know, mom is working maybe like on her laptop, has like a um wall also taking care of the kids. I I almost feel like that's what some people consider a stay-at-home mom these days. You're still working while you're staying at home mom. You still have your side hustle somewhere, or like you have your freelance business, or like you have this or that. So, but I do feel like there's still some like stay-at-home moms that are truly, you know, there to really take care of the children full-time and then things like that. But I don't know. But even though you, you know, some of the I guess areas in your in your family history are are a bit fuzzy right now. I did want to ask, you know, once you, you know, were there, started, started living in this world and and grew up with your parents, um, you know, how is that like? And what this episode or or what this conversation is trying to explore really is those values or viewpoints that you kind of grew up with. So I'm curious to hear a little bit about how you grew up and, you know, as you grew up, how those kind of values that maybe your parents had were instilled in you or that you learned about um or absorbed. Uh yeah, can you tell me a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah. Well, there's basically two parts in my brain to my growing up with my parents, uh, my immigrant parents. And one was in New York, where we were surrounded by a lot of family that lived there, and the other one was in Pennsylvania, where we were basically kind of isolated family-wise, and where my parents worked a lot more because they switched from just my dad working to them owning a restaurant, and we all know how much restaurant people work, like around the clock, crazy hours. So there's like two distinct periods there. But even with those two periods and varying experiences with the extended family, there was a lot, a lot of their work ethic, like seriously, and we've talked about this off mic a lot. A lot of their work ethic got into me, even though I didn't even realize it for the longest, longest time. Like when I moved from Pennsylvania to Los Angeles, and I was like new to everything. And I was just, I was like, how how much can I work? was basically how I entered the place. I was like, how, what kind of opportunities are there? And then as soon as I found them, I started collecting jobs because I was like, I need to make sure that I don't end up in a bad situation. Like I have to, I have to work. The only way to do this is to work my way out of out of poverty, like work basically. So I was like, I just I didn't know another way. Like I didn't expect anybody to do anything for me. I didn't expect to be handed situations. I was just like, I'm going to work until I can breathe, basically. And I think a lot of that came from them coming over and kind of building their life from nothing. And uh, but I didn't I didn't know that growing up. Growing up, I just thought, oh gosh, you guys are so different. Everybody sees that we're so different all the time. Everywhere we go, you you look different, you dress different, you sound different. It was, I was probably to be quite honest, I was probably a little embarrassed of them for a long time. I didn't realize the good impact that they had on me.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Well, there's a lot of questions that I have, ranging from the most basic to the most serious, I guess. So starting with a basic question, what kind of restaurant did your parents have? Um, they had an Italian restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

It was mostly a pizzeria because let's be honest, in the middle of a small town Pennsylvania where they lived, it was really hard to get the amazing ingredients that they needed to do anything super fancy. So they had a pizzeria.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Oh, that's great. Um I I I I knew that it was an Italian, I didn't think that was going to jump to. And then my parents opened a sushi restaurant in the middle of Pennsylvania. Um, but uh yeah, pizzeria, that's nice. It's kind of like your local pizza joint. I I quite like that. And you were saying that something that caught my interest, you were saying, Oh, we we are so different from everyone around us. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Was there not really a big immigrant presence where you were living, or was there not a big like Italian presence, or like in okay, so I was born in Brooklyn and my brother and sister are older than me, so they were already in existence.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

So but that was only three years of my life, and I don't remember much of that. And then we moved to Long Island, New York, and like I said, we had a lot of family there and close enough where we when we went into the city, to New York City, we had a lot more family there. So it wasn't as we weren't super isolated or as we were there, but when we moved to Pennsylvania, we were in this tiny, tiny, then it was a borough, I don't know what it is now, called East Petersburg. It's about an hour and a half outside of Philly, and then hour and a half is like crossing the country culturally. Like you go into it in then in the 80s and 90s, it was an extremely conservative, extremely go-getting, go-getter kind of status is everything, materialistic, um, squish everybody beneath you kind of uh suburbia. Um, so it was like probably one of the biggest culture shocks of my life was going from New York to that small town, Pennsylvania, and just like kind of searching around for people that were real because I felt like everybody was trying to be something they weren't and trying to get something at at other people's expense. And even at a young age, it just felt weird to me to be that. And they all seemed unhappy. Like, oh, I hate to be stereotypical about suburbs being empty in like like people being empty inside, but it felt like people were empty inside. It was a very strange. Sorry, I lost the question. I started going off on a small town tangent.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Uh, no, no, it it makes sense. I I mean it's a it's a it's a stereotype, or I guess an idea that's floating around there about suburbs, I guess, for a reason. And you saw maybe the most extreme version of of that kind of negative aspect of what suburb living is like. I I was asking you a bit about what did make it seem like your family was standing out from the crowd. And I guess what you're saying is that there wasn't as big of an immigrant population there, then obviously that there is in New York.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

There, oh, by a long shot, there wasn't. I don't know what it's like now, but at that point we were we were the ethnic minority, which seems really weird to say, but there were seriously, because it that part of Pennsylvania at that time, uh, don't know now, but at that time was incredibly um, it still was like Pennsylvania Dutch influence. There were a lot of like descendants from Germany and and so forth, and it was very not us. And so when we came in with the like pasta and the the potato salad without mayonnaise and the frizzy hair and the just the accents that my parents had, people were like, I don't know what to do with you all. They were very confused and very in a polite way, very rude. Uh, because what's what's different and what what's different is often condescended to or treated less than. And so there was like I had I'm pretty sure I'm elitistic, and I had a lot of troubles like learning to read and and and and and like developmental issues at school. And there were there was this implication that because my parents were immigrants, and it this is all one said, but because they were immigrants, I was clearly stupider. So they were just gonna automatically put me in, which is not a word. I know stupider is not a word, but it should be. Um they were just gonna put me in the lower level because that's where I deserved to be. And and I kind of kicked and kicked and kicked and they tested me and they figured out that I wasn't actually at that level. And so they kept me in there, but they were frustrated because I wasn't performing in the way that they were used to or that they were comfortable with. But there was, but it was just it and I only realized this like much later. I'm like, why did they think that I was like this? Like there were there are other silent kids in the class, but they were more normal than like we stuck I stuck out because of X, Y, and Z. So it's just it was very weird. Like in retrospect, there were a lot of I guess they'd be called microaggressions today, but none of that was talked about or to my knowledge back then in those circles. So it was just like this is what's happening, and we have to try to just keep going forward because we're here to make our lives better, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Right. And that also seems to be a value that kind of arises not just from moving to an entirely new country and having to uh work, as you said, and I do want to get back to this concept of work, but also uh people's perception of you, right? And your family, and then what viewpoints or you know, maybe survival strategies arise from that. Because I mean, did that affect the way that you and your family behaved or or saw themselves?

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Or I mean, I really good question. I don't know because I don't think any of this was really obvious at the time. Maybe it was to the adults in the room, but to us kids, we were just as like uprooted and and shifted over, and we were just trying to like, you know, do what kids do, like have fun and make friends and and all that kind of stuff. So all of the the weirdness, like I said, just kind of came up years and years later as other situations happened, and I started to see other people put in similar situations, and especially when my friends started to have kids and I started to see how their kids were treated, and I was like, wait a minute, oh my gosh, and then it starts to make sense. But at the time, I think it we were just trying to get by to you know live the best life we could, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

But yeah, yeah, there's a lot of interesting things that that you've just said, going back even to your point of moving from New York to to Pennsylvania in the first place, it's it's like one state away or or a few states away. Uh, and yet the culture is totally different. I mean, even even with culture within a certain state is is entirely different in the US, I think. Like if you go to upstate New York versus actually being in New York City. So it's almost like a culture shock. Maybe going to New York, obviously there is quite a culture shock if you've been in one country your whole life that mostly has one type of people, and then you go to a place where you know there's so many different types of cultures and people and backgrounds, but at least in that way, you can kind of feel there's something for everyone. While going to Pennsylvania and not really having anyone like that can feel can feel a lot more jarring, I think, in some ways. So that's something that interesting that then I picked up from there. But going back to this concept of work and trying to get by and survival, uh, I'm wondering if you can tell me once you moved, you know, eventually you moved to LA, then you eventually uh started uh becoming you you started your expat life um as well. And I'm wondering how did those values move with you through life? And and which ones do you feel like especially uh affected your your journey as an expat uh as as you as you were going along with that as well?

SPEAKER_02 19:43

The work once huge, but also because we were treated so strange for so long, when I moved to LA and I wasn't, it was strange. And so I kind of just kind of went, okay, kid and candy store, let's make the most of this opportunity. But then I moved funny enough to a small town to finish my college degree, and I was back in the awkward situation of being the weirdest one in the room. I I knew how to keep going, find my people, and do the things I wanted to do. So by the time I went overseas after that, to places that were very, very different. Like when I went to Taiwan, even though there was a a pretty big culture shock, and I never really found my grounding. I was able to kind of separate being uncomfortable and still having fun is so light, isn't it? Um, having an enjoyable time, getting things out of it, still trying to find people I wanted to connect with. Like it didn't stop me. Like I guess oh wow, I never thought about this before. But I guess the discomfort was normal to me. So it didn't stop me. Where I think some expats might hit that for the first time and go, Wow, I'm gonna need to leave because I don't feel good here. For me, I was like, Oh yeah, I know this, let's go. And I take it with me and keep doing things anyway, and hope that it at least would come and go.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Um yeah, that's pretty interesting. Do you feel that because of that you made decisions that maybe would be different than the typical um, you know, American in in Asia or or whatever or whatever country? Um, do you think that maybe were you able to have different experiences that you feel like maybe um other expats would be hesitant to try at first? Or or how did this feeling of being okay in discomfort affect your your expat life more more specifically?

SPEAKER_02 21:52

There's a couple of things I need to bring up, and this is the uncomfortable part why I've never really talked about this before on camera, on audio, on the mic. Uh I don't have an active relationship with the vast majority of my family, and I basically haven't talked to my family other than a few weird momentary blips since I was so I moved from Pennsylvania when I was 20. So but because of the time, it it's weird. Like I've gotten I've I've gotten to the place where I can see how things work. And I can see them as people and detach from the confusion and those negative emotions that might come from not having an active relationship. And that distance also, and I'm not saying this like it's a good thing, because that is not that was not the goal for me to completely uh detach from everybody that I knew as a child. But not having an active relationship made it easier for me to be an expat. Like the expats that I met who had a very tight-knit family had a really hard time. Because to be quite honest with you, if you have that kind of support system, why would you leave it? Like that's something that people crave and search for their whole lives. For me, I didn't. And that gave me the ability, fortunately or unfortunately, to, as you said, like do things that a lot of folks wouldn't have the emotional ability to do because I didn't have a pull back to the US on a in a family sense. I had other pulls that made it hard to stay away at the beginning, but it it wasn't a familial pull of this is going on or this is happening or we miss you, or you're, you know, you're missing that comfort of home. Like that wasn't that wasn't a thing that I had to consider. So that was a huge part of my ability to go, to stay so often, to move around to different places, to put myself in risky situations and not be worried that the X, Y, and Z person would need to come collect me if all went wrong because they wouldn't, because I they wouldn't even know anything had happened. So yeah, I think it I think that played a huge factor in all of it.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

I do have two follow-up questions for that. One being, as much as you want to answer in terms of this confusion that, you know, before you moved, that was maybe causing this you wanting to distance yourself from your family. May I don't know if that was tied to this conversation that we've been having about the different values that can perhaps come from the immigrant experience, good or bad.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

The difficulty in talking about this is I decided early on I never wanted to tell anybody else's story about my own because I can't pretend to understand what my parents or relatives are thinking and feeling. And I this was not my decision. Um I was basically estranged as soon as I left the house to move to California. And there has never been an active discussion as to what happened. So I don't um it wasn't my distancing. Uh I think eventually it might have been or me deciding to move to Los Angeles was my active role in that, but maybe, but I never in a million years thought that that would be um I don't even know the right analogy, the end of having a blood family. I don't know. It just it it confused me a lot at the time, but yeah, it was not an active distancing.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

I see. I see that makes sense. Well, the other follow-up question that I had for you was when just if you could give us an example of when you were talking about there were certain situations where maybe you were being bolder or a bit riskier, uh, and what were some of those kinds of situations that you feel like uh because of this relationship that you had or or didn't really have as much with your family, you were kind of able to pursue a bit more than maybe your your typical expat.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Oh, sure. I think even just in my first move over to Asia, I mean it's I mean, Taiwan's so so modern and so um so so not middle of nowhere. But I didn't know that. So even just like signing up to go teach for a year in a place from uh an online job ad and then like booking a ticket for a week later and meeting my boss at the airport, like these are all things that seems really strange to most people. Like it's like, how did you trust all of that? And all I could think was, well, if that doesn't work out, I'll just come back. And then I can keep working and and figure out what else to do. And like those situations of like the places that I've gone and the people that I've met and the situations that I've been in. I can I remember when I was traveling around Bratislava. Was it Bratislava? Somewhere in Eastern Europe, and I booked a hotel for the price and not location, and probably the last time I did that. Um, I was just walking around with this giant backpack and the like it my flight was delayed and I got in really late. And I saw I was like walking around this neighborhood that I knew nothing of, and there were this is pre-cell phones and all that. So I was just going off of the maps on the street, and I'm thinking, wow, this is probably quite dangerous for me to be walking around. I'm clearly a Taurus, like I am a moving target right now. And I was just like, you know, just use city smarts. I had my key in my hand and I was ready if anybody tried to attack me. And I was, you know, making eye contact, following couples, and doing all of these like smart behaviors to try to not have situations, bad situations happen. But I don't know. I feel like I put myself in more like minor situations, minor and major situations like that, because I didn't have to worry about anybody cleaning up my own mess. Like I was the one who would always have to clean it up. So I'm like, let's go, let's do what we want to do, because I'll deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah. I mean, even on that point of I'll deal with it, or oh, if something happens, I'll just go somewhere else and work. And this idea of taking care of things by yourself and also working very hard, which I feel like are both things that we've mentioned during this conversation are huge values that that uh have come about from having immigrant parents and having that kind of experience. And maybe this is one of the last questions I'll ask you since we're wrapping up um our conversation a little bit here. But how you talked about this a little bit, but I'm wondering if you could tell me more about how this concept of work and trying to work as hard as you can and get by and do all these things, how that value really affected your your expat life.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Oh, massively. Especially in the TEFL industry. I know this is gonna rub some people the wrong way. There are a fair bit of backpackers that like to go and teach English in a place and to barely show up for work or to show up for work not really cognitively ready that day, shall we say? Like they'll just show up and be like, hey, I'm here to do this so I can stay here or I can be here for a little while. Or there's a there's a very fairly big-sized contingent, not all of them, but a fairly big-sized contingent of the TEFL industry that is that that I is um not serious about what they're doing. And the industry plays on that and they take advantage of that financially. So it's it's a it's a dance. But for me, even though I was initially using teaching English to stay in places longer, I couldn't not do a good job. Like there were people in my classrooms and there was um there were things to be done. Like I can't when people try to hire me even now for something quick and simple, I'm like, let me refer you to someone because I can't, and I know you're smiling because I think you're like this too, Melissa. I can't half ass anything. Like I have to go deep into something and do it well. And that's always something that has been a huge part of me. Like, there's like sloppy and and not knowing the full realm that that task or that thing could do is just not in me. I can do sloppy, but it's you it's not sloppy put up in necessarily everybody's eyes, more so in my eyes. I don't know. It's just not digging in is not part of my DNA. And then I think that's a huge component of my parents and their just like just watching them constantly just dealing with shit and coming back to the top, like the still focusing on what they wanted and and just constantly like pushing through all the bullshit. I feel like pushing through all the bullshit is a huge thing that I got from them that has helped me push through a lot of the bullshit of being an expat and dealing with bureaucracy in places that don't make sense as a bureaucracy does in other places. But I mean, just yeah, I think that's a huge thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Yeah, totally. Where does bureaucracy make sense? Who where's the where's the country where we're like, oh, I love the bureaucracy? Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

I think the people who enforce it or the people who make it, it makes sense to them because it keeps them in their cushy place. But yeah, the rest of us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

No, but this is really interesting. And we have talked a little bit about this before before getting on this conversation. I think it's even the reason why we decided to have this conversation, or you you invited me perhaps in the first place because we were talking about this. And I can definitely relate. I feel like there is there's almost a different standard or expectation that sometimes, you know, immigrant kids place on themselves or or kids of parents who who are immigrants, where it's kind of like, okay, what I saw growing up was that you don't stop working no matter what. And it doesn't, it's not good enough to settle for being okay. Like you have to be the best, like you have to strive for the best. Part of this, I feel like comes from this American dream concept that more and more I'm wondering whether it exists, but um uh or or maybe not in the way that most people think it does. But I it's also I feel like a survival thing as well, in terms of you were talking about oh, sticking out. And it's kind of like, okay, I'm going to be the best, do the best that I can do so that people don't question me anymore on whether I'm allowed to be here. Uh and I think that also plays a part of it as well. And so I do think that a lot of immigrant kids take that uh and and really take that to heart. Even if, for example, you know, my parents didn't really try to to place those expectations on me because they did they knew the expectations that were placed on themselves and maybe they didn't want the same things, it didn't really matter at a certain point. At some point, it's something within me that that makes it really hard to come out of um and to reject in a way, because in a way it can be helpful. And I think, you know, for you, in some ways it's been helpful in terms of like, you know, really making the most out of your experience and working hard and you know, really establishing yourself. On the other hand, what does this lead to? There's a lot of overwork that happens, a lot of stress, a lot of burnout, a lot of thinking that maybe you're not amounting to the standard that you've placed for yourself internally that doesn't externally exist. And yeah, I can see that you want to comment.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

A lot of not asking for or demanding what everybody else is getting too. Because I don't I don't know if you've done that, but I've I've kind of like watched, especially early on in the workplace, and I was kind of watching, going, wait, um, they're all they're getting this, or they're saying no to this, or they're like knowing the boundaries that you're allowed to have and the expectations of things that you should be getting. And that was the huge wake-up call for me. I was like, oh, I can do that. That's interesting. Oh, definitely. I remember watching a rom com early in my 20s and seeing one of the female characters, like there was something that went wrong with the impending relationship, and she was so devastated that she didn't. I don't remember what movie it was, but I remember I'll never forget this. She stopped going to work for a few days and her life started to crumble. And I'm like, wait, wait, what? You stopped going to work over a guy? Like, what are how are you like nailed into your apartment? Like, how, why did you stop going? Like, it just floored me. Like, I kind of lost a few minutes in the movie because I was like, I was so floored that she had given all of that energy to that, to that guy in that relationship. I just I was like, no, honey, you gotta do stuff, go.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Yeah, but what does that mean? I mean, it's kind of like then in your own personal life, is it oh, never stopping, even when there are emotional things that we deal with in life, like considering work to be at the center or or focal point of our lives, and kind of like living to make sure that we can complete that work, even though there's so much to life out outside of work. And it's like, I feel like these past few years, I've been really reconsidering my relationship to work and kind of like, okay, were we meant in this life to do everything that we can to work as much as possible? Or is that an idea that has been instilled in us, maybe from society and capitalist society especially? And and you know, maybe from this immigrant parent experience. And, you know, it does feel like that. It does feel that um sometimes we've been conditioned a certain way to act a certain way or think a certain way. But then thinking about all the things outside of that. Am I not supposed to live my life to spend time with the people that I love and explore and even just do nothing and the kind of dirty freedom that comes, I know the the freedom that comes towards pursuing something, not to be good at it, but just to do it or pursuing nothing at all.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Yeah, that's true. And now in my 50s, looking back at that movie, I would say don't waste time on the guy, don't waste time on work. If you're gonna take that time off, go do something you enjoy. That has nothing to do with the guy who's clearly playing you. I mean, so just like option three. Like both of those are toxic. Go over there and go enjoy your life.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Yeah, definitely. Uh well, great. I mean, is there anything else that you wanted to say, Steph, about this whole topic that maybe I didn't get to ask you about?

SPEAKER_02 37:40

No, I think we covered a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

All right. I'm still think about today. I'm really glad. I mean, I also do have stuff to think about today. And I really enjoyed hearing about your experience. I had it, I'd heard bits and pieces um from you, but it was it was nice being able to hear more. And I think that is pretty relatable for a lot of people as well. And I think a lot of people would think the same.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Thank you. And thank you for being in the hot in the hot the interviewer seat. I yeah, it's it's as strange as it is to be on this side right now in my own podcast. I really appreciate the perspective that you brought to this and that you're willing to do this. And so early in the day as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Well, early for me, yes. It is 7 a.m., but it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Uh yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Uh no, it's okay. Um that I usually I on many days I wake up at six these days, so it's it's not too bad. I know it's it's hard, right? But uh, but but there's something nice about waking up early. I don't do it every day, but some days. Uh is there any kind of geopaths uh social media or website that I should that I should plug as well?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

No, well, no, it's all under my name because everything keeps changing. So at Steph Fuccio. There we go. Right there if you're looking in the video, S-T-E-P-H-F-U-C-C-I-O. This is the end of this season, and we're going to have another podcasting season in a couple of months.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

All right, sounds good. Well, it was really great talking to you, Steph. I'm so glad that you got into the interview EC today uh and made it a little bit more about yourself because I feel like it was super interesting uh to talk about. And yeah, I think that being able to discuss how these different experiences um figure into the expat experience. I feel like there are a lot of people out here with the same experience, and it's kind of nice to talk about, but it's also kind of nice to see how people come into being an expat in different ways and also how they navigate that as well. So thanks so much for for talking today and and being open about your experience.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Thank you. All right, we'll see you on the next season, everybody. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Oh boy, when Stephanie was talking about the unconscious bias in her schools, it just made me it really resonated with me because I taught for years in different schools and I had to always be asking myself, what is going on here? Am I actually seeing this problem clearly, or is my unconscious bias shining through? And oh, it just it just gave me goosebumps to hear that. If this or any of the other episodes in this season have given you goosebumps, then I know Steph would love it if you could do her a big favor and share it with one, just one other listener. The next episode will be coming out when Stephanie starts her new season, which will be in the fall. So, once again, dear listener, thank you all so very, very much, and we look forward to seeing you all here again. Bye bye.